Thanks. Hope you’re doing well.
I haven’t even talked about the whole loose skin stuff. It’s hideous and I still tend to hide it, even as public as I am. Ashamed and embarrassed, that I let him say/do what I did, and not wanting the images I’d have to describe out there. Suffice to say he got great amusement out of my skin once I lost substantial weight and had some (nonsexual) “games” he played.
Andy turned 18 on July 26, 2001.
Met Andy online last week of December, 2001.
Andy turned 19 on July 26, 2002.
Met Andy IRL summer 2002.
Met the founding Bagenders at the Two Towers Line Party on December 17, 2002.
Project Elanor was April 6, 2003.
Andy turned 20 July 26, 2003
We moved as a group to Los Angeles October 7, 2003, the day Arnold Schwarzenegger won the recall election. (Andy was 20).
The household destructed along with Tentmoot December, 2003.
Diamond, Andy and I moved into motels spring 2004.
Andy turned 21 July 26, 2004.
Andy kicked Diamond out in the fall of 2004.
After that it’s mainly my word he didn’t do sex work, but that doesn’t make his claims true either.
Fine Andy, you want to take it there, take it there. No, he was not a “sex worker” and he was not a phone sex operator. Ever. On one single afternoon, for two hours, he did one modeling session. I will freely admit I don’t know what exactly happened in that two hour afternoon. I know that he never bothered to inflate it into a drama or make a big deal. He was extremely matter of fact about it, said there was a little nudity but nothing much, and moved on. It was definitely not “hardcore porn” nor was it with any other people.
Yes, I am fully aware that this could scar someone, or be traumatic. I do not mean to undermine anyone who experienced such pain. However, the event was minor, one time, and never came up again. He didn’t even rub it in my face that he had to do it. It was a business transaction, as far as he ever treated it. And I have never said a word about it to anyone until this post.
We were very poor in Hollywood, and he made $100. I know that, because it paid for our rent and dinner (our motel was $85 nightly). He did try to push *me* into sex work, specifically modeling and stripping. But he’d invariably sigh and say that I was either too fat, or that my loose skin from losing so much weight would mean I could “only do freaky fetish shows.” Him doing sex work never came up aside from the incident above.
He NEVER had ANY kind of phone sex (or ANY phone related) jobs. The closest was him working as a commissioned salesman for VeriPhone, a credit card reader company. That was for about 3 weeks and we made no money. Andy claimed he was scammed by the guy he’d been signed up by. Maybe true, maybe not, but thats the closest to a phone he ever got. Hell, we didn’t HAVE phones, ffs. All we did was take pictures for tips in costumes.
Rule of thumb: if Andy claims something out of nowhere that is dramatic, traumatic, scandalous and salacious…it’s almost guaranteed to be a lie, or at best a vast exaggeration.
Yes, I did tell him never to contact him again. Over the last couple years I sent two asks (to the best of my recollection). One was calling him out for anon asks (which he replied to deny it) and one other, to the effect that he’s a coward and hiding. True, I didn’t say “you have my permission to apologize,” but he did reply.
Further, I posted this ( http://kumquatwriter.tumblr.com/post/44168057494/of-note) in 2013. Again, it doesn’t explicitly say “you have my permission to apologize,” but that’s splitting hairs. I DID explicitly say he had permission to apologize in the last couple weeks, which is juuuuust before he accused me of being a statutory rapist.
In ANY event, it’s pretty shitty to blame his victims for his own lack of apologies. The onus is on the person in the wrong to apologize. Not the victims’. He maintains a public persona and has zero problems defaming people. To say he can’t apologize for public statements on his public blog because the person he harmed didn’t give him permission?
That’s some bullshit right there.
What you described in this post — the specific behavior and the difficulty of conveying it in words — actually reminded me a great deal of the “forced teaming” behavior described in The Gift of Fear. Actually, upon consideration, pretty much every one of what De Becker refers to as “pre-incident indicators” rings true for what I’ve read of your writing about Andy. De Becker argues that a lot of what people put down to intuition, something mysterious and inexplicable, is actually the mind noticing and processing lots of these kinds of things at a quick and maybe subconscious level, so that one might have a bad feeling about someone without ever quite being able to say why.
Also, I think you’re awesome.
Thanks! I don’t see it as any kind of outreach myself, just telling the truth and slaying lies I encounter. I appreciate all the support I’ve been receiving deeply. It does get intense and it is very exhaustive.
So Andy posted an apology. Let’s call it the Andypology for ease of reference. This Andypology sounds good, no doubt about it. It even sounds almost genuine. Almost.
The main (but by no means only) problem with this apology is that at no point does he actually apologise for the allegation he made, or retract the false claim that he was 17 when his sexual relationship with Abbey began. There is ample proof from Andy himself that the allegation is false, as well as timelines and his date of birth which have long been on public record. He refuses to acknowlege this clarity and he acts like he’s conceding that others might be right, though he can’t swear to it.
One thing to bear in mind when reading is that the Andypology has a number of audiences.
- Abbey. This is a response to her invitation to apologise.
- Andy’s followers. This is further proof to those already convinced that Andy has changed. From now on, if anyone claims that Andy has never accepted culpability or apologised for his actions in the past, Andy’s followers can point to this. He did apologise, they can say. You just refuse to believe him because you have it in for him. You’re twisting his words. You refuse to give him a chance. It’s also because of his followers that he must continue to pretend that he’s not sure if he was 17 or 18 when he met Abbey. If he were to acknowledge the truth now, they might start wondering if he’s lied to them, and he can’t have that.
- Everyone else. Everyone who has ever pointed out that Andy has never apologised to his most well-known victim. Here it is. Has he apologised to Abbey? It certainly looks like it. It’s in the title of this post, even. “Not me, not in my name, and I’m sorry.” Sorry for what?, is the question we should be asking.
- And that subgroup of “everyone else” that sees through the continued bullshit. The people who refuse to take this apology at face value and who are now going to become further entrenched as the Them to Andy’s Us. We know how he loves to create Us v Them scenarios to keep his followers close. And now, by posting about his apology and showing how it is not genuine, we at this blog once more become the big mean Them out to get Andy.
We acknowledge that role we play in Andy’s Us v Them. But the only way to avoid playing any role is not to comment at all, and given the stakes, we’re not willing to do that.
I also want to draw attention to the fact that, when an anon asks Andy about how to go about apologising, the first thing he mentions is the “wording”. Not how you feel about it. Not how you hurt others. But the wording, how it will come across, and how to avoid legal ramifications. Not one shred of consideration for remorse, shame, guilt, emotion. Very revealing.
So with all that in mind, let’s take a closer look and see what the Andypology is really doing, and more importantly, what—if anything—it’s really apologising for.
Well done! I lolled at the James Bond reference.
Now then. No, he’s still nor apologized to me. What would that entail to be a legitimate apology?
1) He has to say who he’s apologizing to. Not “them” and “they” and “the person.” I have a name. He knows it. So does everyone reading this.
2) He has to say what he did wrong. Not vagaries. “I am sorry I lied to you.” And “I am sorry I lied ABOUT you,” is a start. There’s also, “I am sorry I convinced you to flee the country.” “I am sorry I turned you against your mother, your friends, your family. ” “I am sorry I told lies about you. ” It’s a long ass list, he could start anywhere. Owning his actions.
3) He has to accept his responsibility. “But mental illness” is bullshit sidestepping. Many, many people with a variety of mental illnesses somehow are able to say “I did something wrong and I am sorry,” without a wall of text excusing and dodging and reframing. I have mental illnesses. I can admit when I lie - something I stopped doing as part of my own therapy. I can apologize for bad behavior without excusing myself that I’m too sick.
4) He has to correct the lies. At the bare minimum, retract his claims that we secretly met 2 years before the record shows and that he was 18 when we met. This is non negotiable. All of his “but it’s all a blur!” Is a crock of Bullshit. If he’s so well treated, he has people he can trust to confirm/refute his “unreliable” memory. He baldface, repeatedly lied.
Until he recants the lie, clearly and publicly, without frills and evasions, he has not apologized for anything. At all.
I don’t expect any of this will happen.
He’d like to frame it that I couldn’t ever forgive him anyway. I don’t know if I could - but I never thought I’d forgive Jeanine, or Bob, or Diamond, or my Father - all people I felt both that I had wronged and had wronged me beyond repair.
But ain’t nothing forgiven if you can’t actually apologize.